tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post2891624667732352528..comments2023-09-06T09:27:43.866-07:00Comments on fazzledown: Scotland and HS2pa_broon74http://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-5800624406656971922014-02-23T06:16:36.159-08:002014-02-23T06:16:36.159-08:00Well gosh.
Look at all these comments.
I don'...Well gosh.<br /><br />Look at all these comments.<br /><br />I don't have anything to add although I would point out I don't think there are many nationalists (or people who will be voting yes) who wish ill on our neighbours - if we're talking about glee I think unionists should look a wee bit closer to home - the Daily Mail could well change its name to the Daily Glee on some days. When it comes to wishing ill, I think George Osborne is the man to ask, by 'ruling out' a currency union, its not us people in England want to worry about.<br /><br />The only other thing to say is, HS2 is a good idea theoretically, but, and this is a big but - when the (Westminster) government refer to 'the north' they don't mean Scotland, they mean the north of England.<br /><br />The proof will be in the eating of the pudding (so to speak.) I don't believe it'll get past Leeds, if it did though - since transport is devolved, I wonder where the money for Scottish upgrades would be found if its a 'no' in September?<br /><br />Theoretically of course, I don't believe we'll be daft enough to vote no.<br /><br />PS: And can we leave the 'international border' chat at the door? Its pointless scaremongering and one of the most debunked subjects in the debate.<br /><br />pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-19170845881405675752014-02-23T05:55:05.918-08:002014-02-23T05:55:05.918-08:00No at all. The typo was in the Bowie sentence. &qu...No at all. The typo was in the Bowie sentence. "Was" should read "wasn't".Dundee1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-68613384473251332862014-02-23T05:52:32.371-08:002014-02-23T05:52:32.371-08:00... And still you are going, Congratulations on yo...... And still you are going, Congratulations on your travelling history- very impressive no doubt. <br /><br />Thank you for putting me in place for conflating things. <br /><br />I am very keen for my country to survive and to invest in the future (that's the Uk and the notion of major infrastructure improvements by the way) so I suppose it's easily done.<br /><br />However, I see you are a keen debater and last-worded, so I'll best leave it there.<br /><br />(No doubt you'll have something further to add, and I promise to at least try and read it at some point next year).<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-55791627672239988112014-02-23T05:49:11.059-08:002014-02-23T05:49:11.059-08:00this is the "killer blow" (I'd use l...this is the "killer blow" (I'd use less emotive terms myself) to the Yes vote.<br /><br />Was that your typo?Bugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-27005459669235484332014-02-23T05:46:31.872-08:002014-02-23T05:46:31.872-08:00typo
and whop should which party should
drop the...typo<br /><br />and whop should which party should<br /><br />drop the and whop shouldBugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-32765667170611373422014-02-23T05:46:23.046-08:002014-02-23T05:46:23.046-08:00As someone whose family is spread throughout the U...As someone whose family is spread throughout the UK, drawing an international border between them isn't something I view as an improvement, so I cannot share your views on that. Whatever the outcome of the vote, it's clear divisions have already taken place within Scotland, and I'm not sure the image of "foot soldiers" improves that. It smells rather like, agree with us or else. Perhaps these will be the same people who were particularly unkind to David Bowie for daring to voice an opinion that was shared by the ruling nationalists?<br /><br />However, I really cannot understand the tone of glee in your posts when it comes to considering the prospect of England (and Wales and Ni) suffering in some way through National Grid problems or funding major projects. The SNP would have us believe we'd be closer and more friendly to our "neighbours" by voting to separate from them, and that nobody amongst their supporters displays any sort of anglophobia whatsoever.<br /><br />I do agree with you though, that we should all be hopeful that the final phase of all this is the "killer blow" (I'd use less emotive terms myself) to the Yes vote.<br /><br />But, and returning to the trains this is supposed to be about, if it isn't, why would a major rail project in a disliked foreign country be of any concern at all.Dundee1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-87308834517040126742014-02-23T05:43:30.790-08:002014-02-23T05:43:30.790-08:00Anonymous
For nearly thirty years I worked all ov...Anonymous<br /><br />For nearly thirty years I worked all over the World and did so by flying to Amsterdam and onwards.<br /><br />There will be many who wish or need to travel south by road, often just to get the ferry ports in England.<br /><br />I think we would need better ferry connections to the European mainland.<br /><br />Anyway, these are all things for the future, after the referendum.<br /><br />The Referendum in 2014 is not a general election although you are conflating a decision of who it better placed to take decisions on Scotland's future, Holyrood or Westminster and whop should which party should govern and what would be their policies.<br /><br />The vote is about the former and after that which decisions we will take and in which direction would be the Scottish people to decide not Westminster.<br /><br />Please do not conflate the two.Bugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-36068058881600002672014-02-23T05:32:27.986-08:002014-02-23T05:32:27.986-08:00Dundee 1
I meant the debate and our understanding...Dundee 1<br /><br />I meant the debate and our understanding of the points made by the unionists and their debunking, basically by sites like this. The rediffusion of that is the real problem.<br /><br />Hopefully the foot soldiers phase will be the killer blow for the Yes side.Bugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-30492861937486023052014-02-23T05:21:13.639-08:002014-02-23T05:21:13.639-08:00To Urchin- Scotland hasn't "moved on"...To Urchin- Scotland hasn't "moved on". That's precisely the problem. Hopefully it will be able to come September 2014, one way or another.Dundee1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-69466429316473159982014-02-23T05:17:50.733-08:002014-02-23T05:17:50.733-08:00I read the comments, Urchin, and was about to high...I read the comments, Urchin, and was about to highlight the cringing that some caused. However, your further addendum has certainly settled that worry! I'm not sure if "piss and vinegar" is a recognised engineering term, but the reading I've done on the project is mainly from that perspective, much as your valuable insight does add to the discussion.<br /><br />The point remains that it is a UK project. If you disagree with it, what's the point complaining that it doesn't go here or there. If you do agree with it, but also want "independence", find out what plans the SNP has for Scottish high speed rail outside the UK.<br /><br />But don't pretend that travel to / from London wouldn't continue to be important to Scotland in an SNP state. That's just silly!<br /><br />If you feel the hread has moved on, and you've already highlighted that in your most recent post, there's no need for any further posts from youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-42674163959556316682014-02-23T03:27:56.622-08:002014-02-23T03:27:56.622-08:00Anonymous
You haven't read the comments secti...Anonymous<br /><br />You haven't read the comments section otherwise you would know why the project is just a load of piss and vinegar.<br /><br />I don't think it will be built and when Scotland votes Yes where will you find the money from it. I suppose there is always the Chinese, who will be building a nuclear power station in England. Good luck with that as it is also on a flood plain.<br /><br />Thanks for your well meaning and instructive, but naïve contribution.<br /><br />This thread like Scotland has moved on. You have a lot of catching up to do.Bugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-2585440358163398382014-02-23T02:49:41.913-08:002014-02-23T02:49:41.913-08:00The purpose of HS2 is similar to high speed rail i...The purpose of HS2 is similar to high speed rail in Japan or France. Namely, getting people to and from the major city quicker. Whether that is London, Tokyo or Paris. In Britain! the geography is north / south, with the major city in the south. Obviously at the moment, the north includes Edinburgh and Glasgow and it makes sense to continue the lines there. Yes, I know Aberdeen is further north, but in don't think anybody is proposing laying high speed rail everywhere. Cardiff for example. Dundee. Bristol. Norwich.<br /><br />So a UK government would have high speed rail extending to major cities in the north of the UK. At the moment that's Edinburgh and Glasgow. If the SNP win their vote, that would be Leeds and Manchester. Maybe Newcastle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-4389704083072248282013-10-29T13:33:11.850-07:002013-10-29T13:33:11.850-07:00Agreed.
Like I said to Will up there,I just don&#...Agreed.<br /><br />Like I said to Will up there,I just don't believe Westminster would deliberately do something which benefits a part of the UK that could well leave.<br /><br />Nor do I trust them with these 'UK-wide' projects which are supposed to benefit all of the UK. I cannot see how a sewage system in London will mean someone in Oban will be able to go to the bog with a more peaceful mind.<br /><br />More over, I think its about transport hubs too, when independent, we'll prefer people to come straight here, not be held hostage at some 'London' airport or train station.<br /><br />Anyway, for Westminster, I think this'll be their Tram fiasco - on steroids.<br /><br />:-/pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-36427611986703753732013-10-29T08:51:20.210-07:002013-10-29T08:51:20.210-07:00This is about London and getting people from the n...This is about London and getting people from the north of England to London quicker and encouraging firms to set up in certain parts of the north of England. Scotland will not benefit from this at all, we'll pay for a part of it if we vote no next year but we will not benfit from it. It is also a huge waste of money, like trident and the British Olympics, sorry London and the British sewer system , oh sorry London. Do Londoners actually pay for anything themselves without our taxes or our lottery money.<br /><br />BruceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-77333876277552120472013-10-28T16:33:37.476-07:002013-10-28T16:33:37.476-07:00Thanks Hannah.
I'm not sure what's best f...Thanks Hannah.<br /><br />I'm not sure what's best for public transport, there are things the private sector does do well - the sink-or-swim aspect allows for swift decision making although it also can lead to some pretty shoddy treatment for the work force. I think a balance between the two with the state holding a controlling interest and the private sector having access to the remainder.<br /><br />No idea how that would work in practice right enough. As you say, without independence, we'll never get to decide for ourselves and for me, that is the entire point.<br /><br />@Bugger.<br /><br />The penny drops. ;-)<br /><br />Really appreciate all the comments, thanks again for taking the time folks.<br /><br />:-)pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-82038838811757521342013-10-28T14:04:01.339-07:002013-10-28T14:04:01.339-07:00Once independent we can afford to improve our own ...Once independent we can afford to improve our own rail links :) I hope for better transport nationally and locally. Also I hope we can curtail the power of nasty companies like First who seem to be getting a pretty good monopoly on travel in certain areas of Scotland. Do you think we could ever make a return to real 'public' transport?<br /><br />Really like your blog. Keep up the good work!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12609304451087893504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-50873108111273197672013-10-28T09:56:59.415-07:002013-10-28T09:56:59.415-07:00pa_broon74
Just call be Bugger (the Panda).
The...pa_broon74<br /><br />Just call be Bugger (the Panda).<br /><br />The reason Wordpress calls me IBSU is a very long storyBugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-6047316422781886552013-10-28T08:54:12.187-07:002013-10-28T08:54:12.187-07:00Hello Urchin (not sure how to refer to you :-)
I ...Hello Urchin (not sure how to refer to you :-)<br /><br />I was going to mention the National Grid, its the closest analogy.<br /><br />Another analogy I suppose would be asking council tax payers in Stirling to cough up a per capita share for the trams in Edinburgh (OH YES - I WENT THERE ;-) I mean, the trams sort of go toward Stirling don't they?<br /><br />;-)pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-2199610274760863642013-10-28T08:43:45.743-07:002013-10-28T08:43:45.743-07:00I would also say, in Scotland, we might want to de...I would also say, in Scotland, we might want to develop our own transport hubs. Obviously won't be digging any new tunnels to Europe but why should people travelling to or from Scotland be shuttled through English ports or stations?<br /><br />Last time I checked, a lot of the time air travel was cheaper than rail anyway. Some might say making rail travel quicker makes it more attractive but if you're paying through the nose...<br /><br />I can understand Westminster - if we did vote yes - wanting to continue having people transiting through English ports to get to Scotland. But that wouldn't exactly be in Scotland's best interests would it?pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-45171064393690021372013-10-28T08:39:53.888-07:002013-10-28T08:39:53.888-07:00These infrastructure projects, including the '...These infrastructure projects, including the 'Limpics are designated UK projects and are not subject to the Barnett formula.<br /><br />In fact think of the Dome, the 2000 fiasco, the Crossrail line, the London sewer upgrade and Boris Johnson were all designated as UK projects which did not involve capital allocation to the SE of England in the Treasury Accounts.<br /><br />However the National Grid, which charges access to suppliers charges these suppliers a volume pay-in per unit based on distance from London. Yes, those closest to London get a fee paid to them for using the N Grid.<br /><br />I wonder whether the Interconnector between France and the SE England are charged based on distance from London, say the Agen Nuclear Station, near Toulouse, or it is all based on the distance between Calais and Dover?<br /><br />Anybody here can conform the Electricity cost to the consumer in London is lower per unit than in Aberdeen or Glasgow, where it is generated and colder in Winter?<br /><br />It was something similar for the cost of a "truck" call to London on the old BT network than a call twixt Aberdeen and Glasgow, despite the fact that the rate determining step for costing is in fact the number of costly switching stations, which because of the urban geography necessitates more switching stations per unit distance than the long jumps from Glasgow to London.<br />The internet stuffed that nice wee earner.<br />Independence will stuff the N Grid one.<br /><br />Another hidden SE England subsidyBugger le Pandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15924663556503952533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-72819945932970708922013-10-28T07:40:19.062-07:002013-10-28T07:40:19.062-07:00I'm calling bollocks.
Existing tracks you say...I'm calling bollocks.<br /><br />Existing tracks you say, fair enough. Seems like a worthy investment, that tax payers in Scotland should pay for an infrastructure upgrade in another part of the UK for a time saving of some 53 minutes (best case scenario) on a journey to London. Already aspersions are being cast on just how beneficial the entire project will be.<br /><br />As for Phase 3? The way things are going, they'll be lucky to get phases 1 & 2 off the ground. What we'll up with is new infrastructure in England paid for with help from the rest of the UK, (who's subsidising who here?) While regions and cities near to HS2 flourish (allegedly,) towns and cities no where near the new line will lose out.<br /><br />You skip lightly over the losses that may be sustained by Scottish cities too.<br /><br />As for my 'approach' - as usual the aim of self-determination is missed. Its got nothing to do with 'cutting off' neighbours and everything to do with doing what best benefits Scotland's economy and those of our neighbours.<br /><br />You'd no doubt moan about my turning this into something about independence, but it simply is about independence. I don't for one millionth of one millisecond believe Westminster would harm its own vote in favour of doing something that benefits a demographic that enthusiastically rejects them.<br /><br />I never claim to be mature or literate, I try at all times to be realistic though.<br /><br />You should try it.<br /><br />pa_broon74https://www.blogger.com/profile/01915208411019621104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7488826927992195485.post-76010530891627596162013-10-28T05:58:43.952-07:002013-10-28T05:58:43.952-07:00Either you are deliberately mis-representing the f...Either you are deliberately mis-representing the facts or are ignorant of them. HS2 trains will continue directly on existing track to Scotland, saving 30 mins to Glasgow and 45 mins to Edinburgh (including a stop at Cairatairs).<br /><br />Further upgrades north of Leeds/Wigan and on the Scottish side in a future phase 3, will reduce the Edinburgh/Glasgow to London journey time below the 3hr mark.<br /><br />Journey times and capacity between Scotland and England's Midlands and North will be similarly improved.<br /><br />The new track doesn't have to be on the Scotish side of the border for Scotland to benefit. An independent Scotland would have even more to gain from fast connections to England and Europe (via the Chunnel) than it does now. Your approach to cut Scotland off from its economically far larger neighbours is immature and intellectually illiterate at best.Willnoreply@blogger.com